Curse

Dario D. · Jan 31, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

-------------Act 1----------------

Ive always been one to appreciate a challenge, in games like Diablo, Battlefield2, etc, in a way that makes the game engaging and difficult to master, forcing you to employ strategy, and giving you great satisfaction when you overcome a problem or do something great with a new skill.

But the line is drawn at the point that a challenge becomes a frustration.

When I started playing Guild Wars, I was at first shocked and awed to find the post-searing world so darn difficult and intimidating at first. There was a real sense of doom in the towns, as everyone seemed to be in a mad panic to save the world, while scrambling to upgrade their gear before going back out into the perilous world. This was great. It had a great sense of atmoshpere, and the challenge was very welcome.

You could go outside and get into fights with monsters, barely win, and have to progress carefully, avoiding certain enemies altogether. To get to other towns, people would have to form running parties, and be run there by a higher level player with the right spells to actually stay alive.

So this was great. The atmosphere was awesome, and the sense of difficulty was a welcome challenge, requiring you to form groups before going out into the world if you wanted to survive.

-------------Act 2----------------

Now I'm at Kryta, and the difficulty has lost it's allure altogether. First of all, there's no more story. There's no more sense of doom, or motivation to save the world, or really do ANYTHING that actually has an effect on anything other than your stats. There's no more sense of people grouping together to survive and save the world. This problem began as soon as I finished the Ascalon Missions and moved on to the Ice areas.

Where once I was running from fearsome Charr and thought the world was going to end, the Charr are now owned, and I was running from ten times more dangerous things, which really, really turn me off.

Here's an example of what goes through my head. I just owned the Charr and saved Ascalon, then owned the Ice areas (I'm not sure why yet), and now here I am at the beach in Kryta, and I get pwned by a level 20 sea shell.

These sea shells are teh dangerous. Even when idling, they just sit there and cast spells on themselves. If you get in a fight, they cast spells that drain your health, slow you down, stop you from attacking, and they take longer than almost any other enemy I've encountered to kill. If there are two or more, I usually have to run, while being barraged by their ANNOYING spells. And then there are those large groups of Mergoyles that look like they fit the descrition of Level 1 target practice... but NOOOO.... if you mix them with a group of mighty Hydras, guess who wins? The Mergoyles and sea shells.

The Fire Imps... don't even get me started on why I can't survive more than one Fire Imp at a time... they look teddy bears, and I'm a Level 14 Ranger with a Animal Companion and a powerful, carefully selected set of spells and abilities. It's anyone's guess why they can kill a Level 17 Ranger (with the best gear available) in about 7 seconds flat when there are 3 or more.

------- ACT 3 ------

Now, I understand (or at least Ive heard in towns) that Warriors are like tanks, but what if you're not a warrior? (im a Ranger) And what if you cant get a group together?

What if you want to play alone? Does it make sense to have a few very hard, carefully selected areas that contain the super hard enemies that defend super good items? Why does every fight in the game have to be against enemies that pwn? Aren't special areas with special rewards supposed to contain the hard guys? And why are all the indigenous life forms like Level 20, spell-casting sea shells? I like having difficult Charr, but when I find a snowy landscape filled with random animals that can all beat the living crap out of the Charr, I say "this is just stupid. The game-world sucks now."

So, now that I'm in a Kryta, it has also been a LOT harder to actually get a group together... (or at least a grop that doesnt get owned by the Fire Imps and sea shells).

This brings me to another HUGE thing that annoys the crap out of me about GW... What if I don't WANT to go with a group now? If you party up or go with Henchman, the XP you get from killing enemies is cut in half PER PARTY MEMBER. This means an enemy worth 100xp would give you like 8... and since your Level determines how much XP enemies can give you, if you never spent GREAT deals of time going solo just to get XP from enemies, you're missing out!... because now you're too high a level to get any XP from those enemies, and you lost the chance (even though they would have pwned you anyway if you went solo)

I spent about 2-1/2 hours just going outside in Kryta to beat up Mergoyles *by myself*, and leveled up TWO TIMES! They're worth 80xp each. I just went outside, jumped 20 of them, went back to town, went outside, jumped another 20 of them... rinse-repeat.

If I go with a party, I may be able to finish quests easier, but the XP becomes meaningless, and so the enemies become meaningless, as if they were just there to annoy you with all their stupid spells, and slow you down.

------ ACT 5 ------

Another problem that I feel the game is absolutely overidden with are penalties, as if I can't be allowed to enjoy anything. Henchman take most of your money when it's dropped. Merchants offer PENNIES when you sell super expensive stuff. Runes that are +2 take away 50 Health (WTF?!!!),... It just seems like everything is designed with absolute balance in mind, which means that everything sucks.

It's not like in Diablo, where charms, runes, etc let you feel BETTER about your stats, and actually DO something significant, without applying some ridiculously annoying penalty that takes away the benefit entirely.

-

So, in conclusion, I just want to ask if anyone else shares these annoyances with the game. I am more interested in the opinions of rangers, monks, and people who have taken a hit from the incredible difficulty, and also might think the game is overidden with peeves and annoying design decisions, as I do.

I enjoyed the game very much up until now. I still enjoy it, but a very large, dark cloud is slowly overshadowing the gameplay, as I find myself not liking the story (or lack of story), being killed by very n00b-looking creatures that cast some of the most annoying spells imagineable, and having to share 90% of my Experience Points (and gold) with other party members, like Henchmen, as I set out to do yet another set of quests that are no different from the first 150, with the exact same rinse/repeat gameplay that's been going on all along, except that this time the game is really beginning to fall apart, because the story, freshness, and reasonable enemies are all gone.

Anyone else feel these things? I could write an entire book on how I would have handled this game (oh, if only I could design the expansion), but this is just the surface area. I think the second half of Guild Wars just becomes too disagreeable and arguable to be considered anywhere NEAR a perfect game, despite having a good start. Unlike almost any other game, this game leaves me with a profound sense of having MUCH to be desired, as I'm perpetually peeved by the inventory and stat design decisions, and all the shortcomings besides.

Ulivious The Reaper · Jan 31, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Man, nice post, but you know what, this isn't Diablo, or BF2, its GW,an entirely different game, and each MMORPG reacts differently to each person, like my friend is Deathly in love with EQ2 how ever i'd play GW over it anyday, and then I have a friend who plays runescape over gw... and trust me rs is horrible i spent a year of my life playing that game,and i totaly regret it.

Well, i personally kinda know how you feel tho. Like with my level 20 warrior, i was so happy, i ascended, went to Temple Of Ages ready to go to Underworld for the first time, took aobut 2 hours to find a group that needed the warrior, and then went to go, and europe took favor... It really dashed my hopes, so i came back the next day, except this time ready to go to the Fissure of Woe, and i did, except, i entered the game after loading the files, and everyone was dead but me...

This is where i made my ranger, (whos now level20) i made him just for the purpose of going to Under World, because people don't accept but what they want in groups, and it really makes me mad... and thats where i feel the pains of this game, people being picky and wanting things there way

As for quests, they're the best for xp at your area, just to let you know

Well i hope that helped,
~Ulivious

KANE OG · Jan 31, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

You haven't even been thru half the game yet! I'd move on to something else if you can't handle GW already.

deathskrye · Jan 31, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

I cant beleive you just wasted that much of your time to write that. You havnt beaten the game and all you talk about is yourself and henchman. Keep playing and get more experienced b4 u make judgements b4 u even get to the desert lol. I cant beleive i wasted my time to read that and then waste my time to write this.

PEACE

Go play runescape or something

chris_nin00 · Jan 31, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario D.

But the line is drawn at the point that a challenge becomes a frustration.

Did you meet a mesmer by chance? Bwahahahhaah

.
But like my buddy, the reaper, here the game is just personal preference.

As for joining groups, it's pretty hard for a ranger. Cause everyone is stereotypical. Get a guild or friends to help you.

As for the henchmen taking your money, they also take your loot. I swear, I've done sorrows furnace so many times I'd have 10,000000000,000 greens if it weren't for those nasty, greedy, henchmen. Once I got a superior vigor rune, and Stephan was looking at me funny. Good thing I had running skills. Damn henchmen.

All I can think of. If you don't like the PvE portion, try the PvP version. Almost like diablo, and not a lot of work involved! I suggest the premade paladin

.

-Cheers!

trankle · Jan 31, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Man, let me start by saying that I totally get where your'e coming from with storyline and gameplay. I had the same questions ("What's my motivation?") when in Kryta and beyond. I feel you. But,

On the issue of XP:

Firstly, players/henchman do not take your XP to the degree that you stated. If it's you and five others, you will get 1/6 of the experience you would have earned for each kill. It may not be the same share as each player, if everyone is a different level, but the XP is getting distributed fairly.

Secondly, if you are playing through all or most of the quests and missions, with full parties, you will have more than enough XP by the time the game would make you level 20 (won't get too specific - don't want to spoil anything). I remember getting to the area in question, and hearing in-town chat about people being noobs for having as much XP as I did when arriving to that town. Really, do not worry about getting enough XP. You'd have to try very hard not to.

On solo vs. team play:

You're right. The game is designed to be too hard to play solo, at least on the first go round. If grouping with players or henchies isn't your style, then I could see why you wouldn't be into Guild Wars. I rally don't see the problem with at least grabbing henchmen, though. One nice thing about GW is that you really don't need alot of loot. Really. The only thing you really need money for is armor, and if you only buy armor a few times during the game, you should always have enough money. And since you said you already have the best gear available, I don't see the point in fretting too much about henchies snatching your loot. Besides, if henchies didn't take a fair share, nobody would ever team with other players, who do take a fair share.

Also, really, if you could walk outside and own everything solo, what would be the point in playing a multiplayer game?

On balance:

I disagree with you on this one. The rune system may not be perfect, but it does force you to make careful choices with your character's build/s. If every superior rune gave a +3 attribute with no penalty...guess what? Everyone would walk around maxed out with superior runes, head to toe. The game would have be balanced around that. Now, instead of a choice, they'd become a necessity. So, you'd have to by armor, and then you'd have to buy a full set of runes. That would make you feel good about your character? That you had another thing you had to spend your money on to compete? With the current system, a poor character may not be able to afford superior runes, but they aren't penalized - they have full hit points. When a character can afford them, then they have a choice, with consequences. And if you think that +2 to an attribute is fully negated by -50hp, you may want to look at your build.

Balance is a core concept of the game. There's a reason you max out at level 20. There's a reason you have to learn how to defeat foes with many powerful skills, instead of mowing through them as you stroll through the world. A ranger isn't supposed to be able to defeat everything; a balanced party is.

It sounds like the game may not be your style, but it's hardly a failure. I'd recommend sticking with it to complete the game with at least one character. If you feel like creating another, you'll have a lot more "aha!" moments where you see how much each class has to offer, and how combining these classes into parties can make the game challenging and fun, and not difficult.

Hope you stick with it.

Dario D. · Jan 31, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathskrye

what deathskrye said...

For your information, MMO's arent about what you think when you're *done* playing. This game is too long to even *consider* finishing it before drawing a conclusion.

If a person is going to spend so much time playing an MMO, the time spent playing better be time well spent. You seem to think this is a 5 hour game like Max Payne where I can't speak until I'm done. I've been playing GW 5 hours a day for weeks, and have had more than plenty of time to draw many well thought out conclusions.

Besides, this a list of ongoing issues I've had with the game, having nothing to do with progression, and they'll all be there at the end of the game. - Don't tell me the ending of the game will be a big Charr saying, "Guess what! The inventory is fixed now! The story is back! All the enemies are beatable next time! Party-Members don't reduce your XP anymore! You shouldn't have drawn any conclusions from Kryta, because everything is fixed now! YAY!!!"

Jetdoc · Jan 31, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Personally, I think the satisfaction of the game is derived from the frustration of playing it.

I'm soloing the game (without henchmen) with my N/Me right now, and having some of the same difficulties in Kryta after having a relatively easy time before that. But I know that those difficulties will make me a better player and learn to utilize more of the non-straightforward skills to defeat them. And when those are mastered, I'll move onto the jungle for a whole 'nother set of problems.

chris_nin00 · Jan 31, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario D.

Don't tell me the ending of the game will be a big Charr saying, "Guess what! The inventory is fixed now! The story is back! All the enemies are beatable next time! Party-Members don't reduce your XP anymore! YAY!!! YOU WIN!!"

You just gave away the ending!

There is only one conclusion for this,
Don't like the game mechanics? Don't play it. Play something more worthwhile.

It's like a marriage. If you have many ongoing issues with your wife, play with her 5 hours a day, and had thought out conclusions about how she was, would you leave her?
The answer would be yes. If your not happy with the game, go be happy with someone else.
Dang that was a bad example.

Cheers!

Ulivious The Reaper · Jan 31, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris_nin00

It's like a marriage. If you have many ongoing issues with your wife, play with her 5 hours a day, and had thought out conclusions about how she was, would you leave her?
The answer would be yes. If your not happy with the game, go be happy with someone else.
Dang that was a bad example.

Cheers!

very, very bad example, but you get the point through, don't hate the player(s) hate the game... or somthing like that

also tehres more to the game than stories, and what not, its strategies that really get you through the game.
~Ulivious

{IceFire} · Jan 31, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

IMO the GW storyline sucks from the end of pre searing ending at Thunderhead Keep.

runners ftw i guess.

LifeInfusion · Jan 31, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

If you play more, you get more frustrated. Best to take your time and play with people.
When playing with henchmen you don't get player interaction and might as well play a signle player game.

It gets better when you get friends and a guild.

Anyway, it is because of the players that most of the "difficulty" issues come. People try to solo, and that's what hurts the rest of the community.

Just do quests/missions. That's the best way.

heavenscloud2 · Jan 31, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

in post-sear game you arent suppose to solo everthing, its designed for team (hence the increased party size) if youre complaining about not enough loots, i think ur only in kyrta, theres hardly anything to get in kyrta. (if u keep playing by the time you get to drok you should have around 15k with just doing quests and missions) get a good team together and enjoy the game. Kyrta has a 6 people party size for a reason. This game isnt hard its about team work, with a good team u can own about any place. (if ur complaining about difficulty wait till u get to THK)

chris_nin00 · Jan 31, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

I almost forgot something from my example!
Marriage conseling!

That's whay D-dawg is here! He's here for marriage conseling! WWOOO!

Ok, it would be helpful to get with groups that know what to do, and how to counter problems that you stated in your post. You get more loot if you go with real people and it's less frustrating with them.

Kook~NBK~ · Jan 31, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

So they came up with new monsters and new challenges in a new area. Beating down Charr all the time would get kinda boring (unless you finish the game and take on the Last Day Dawns quest with level 24 Charr

)

But I can understand the story line let-down going from Ascalon to Kryta. You didn't end the Charr threat, you just migrated to a new area to find a home in. Then you discover this new problem with the place you've chosen for a new home, but it's not exactly clear on what exactly IS going on, so you've got a mystery to solve. meh.

But the game goes much better when you team up with real people. There's a bit of joy to be had when you manage to get into a really good group. (There's more of those than you realize.)

calamitykell · Jan 31, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario D.

All the enemies are beatable next time!

No offense, but if you're being wiped out constantly and you think enemies are impossible to beat:

1.) Practice coordinating better with PUGs or managing henchmen better.
2.) Stop rushing and take the time to do quests to get the XP so you get more levels (if it's important.)

God help you when you get to the desert. You'll be eaten alive

Dario D. · Jan 31, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

God help you when you get to the desert. You'll be eaten alive

I hope it's by something more convincing than spell-casting sea shells.

Grimm · Jan 31, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

There are no sea shell enemies in this game. I have no clue what you keep yammering about sea-shells for.

Judging from your criticisms, (dislike of team play, balance,etc), you're playing the wrong game. Diablo or whatever is probably more what you want.

Teufel Eldritch · Jan 31, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

I felt the same way when I hit Kryta. I continued on & finished the game & now laugh at myself. Someday you will hopefully do the same.

Remember this post.... when you have completed the game/chp 1 we will have a few Dwarven Ale on me. =)

linz85 · Jan 31, 2006, 06:36 AM // 06:36

yeah after a while when u have done the game serveral times with diff chars, the pve side gets a little tiring. but ah well, theres always the pvp side to look at. imho i love eq2 for the pve,but theres no way it beats gw for the pvp.guild wars pvp owns! lol i love it.